Recently I was able to schedule a Zoom call with Ronnie Winter and K. of emo rock band, The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, to discuss their latest record called X’s For Eyes. The band’s sixth album to date features key cameos on songs like “Always the King” (ft. Kellen Quinn) and “Worth It” (ft. Craig Mabbitt) and an urgency towards the political climate today. If you’re enjoying the interview, please consider streaming X’s For Eyes here.
So first of all, thank you Ronnie and K., for your time today. Let’s talk about X’s For Eyes. Where did the concept for this record come from? And why did you choose this as the sixth album title?
Ronnie Winter: All right, it’s a lyric title from one of the songs that I wrote with Matt Squire, kind of towards the end of the album. We actually already finished the album, and then I got the opportunity. I got an email saying, “Hey, Matt Squire is available, and said that he would write with you if you’re available.” And I was like, “whoa, what? That’s insane.” And I’ve just always wanted to work with that guy since I was a kid, and I’m a grown ass man now, so with a kid of my own, who’s nine. So it was a trip to get that email. And I just immediately, even though the album was done, it’s weird because the album was done, it had a different title. So I’m only dabbling in “the real” for you, because you didn’t want the “full real,” so I’m just giving you a splash. So anyway, we wrote that song together, and it was so awesome. I was like, “hey, it’s definitely going on the record.” There’s no doubt about that. Not a follow-up EP, not a second album. Let’s put it on this record, and let’s call the record that.
That’s awesome. So let’s talk about “Always the King.” It opens the record, and it features guest vocals from Kellen Quinn of Sleeping with Sirens. At what point during the writing process did you realize that this particular song lent itself well to a guest spot?
Ronnie Winter: I emailed Kellen right away, and Craig, and I reached out to Ronnie Radke, all of them, because, in my opinion, they were the best. So I reached out to all three of them in the same week, and Kellen said yes. Craig said yes, and Ronnie said, via one of his minions, “I’ll let you know later. I’m just really busy right now,” or something like that. So I was still happy with that answer, because what I needed was yes’s so I could craft the track. So unlike everybody else who just writes the song and then asks somebody to jump on it, I had a different perspective. As a matter of fact, I was going to release an EP called the kings of screamo featuring the people I just mentioned, plus two other trans females, so it would be the three males and then the two trans females, all whom scream, and one who later wound up joining my band, which is not the way I described it, but similar. That would be K. How do you identify?
K.: Trans non-binary, because I mean non-binary is under the trans umbrella, but the world is not ready for the conversation. So trans is kind of just the easiest, but they/them pronouns are the preference. That’s how I identify.
Ronnie Winter: But I want to get it right, and I also want to get the history right. So at the time, I wasn’t addressing trans binary. I had a goal. That was the goal. I want to be clear on that. So I got a couple of yes’s. I got a yes from Kellen, and I got a yes from Craig, and I got kind of a yes from Ronnie, which was good enough for me to move forward, because you have to start writing the music, and you have to start recording it. You have to do it. If they say, “No,” I’m just not gonna…I won’t make that track. So that’s what happened. That’s the back story behind it. I got a hold of Kellen through a website because he was just doing a ton of futures, and I was also doing a ton of futures, and a lot of other singers were during COVID. And I think it was called “featured X”, and it was run by a musician, which is the only reason why I did it. When COVID hit, everybody was like, “What the heck?” I mean, we’ve all been touring for so long, especially bands like mine, you’re just not used to not being on the road. It’s bizarre, you know? And it’s exactly like the person who goes to college every day, and then they’re not going to college and or you’re a nurse, and all of a sudden you’re not going to the hospital. It’s just that we all had that just bizarre, weird blip into what is going on, and then this guy created a website to bring together musicians who wanted to guest on basically unknown artists records. It was for people who didn’t have record deals. And I thought that was cool, so I jumped in right away. And then I saw Kellen was there. I was like, “No way, I’m just gonna hit him up like a normal person.” So I did. I just hit him up like Joe Schmo. And then he, of course, figured out who I was right away, and it was pretty funny. And then he was like, “Yeah, I love the track.” So he jumped on it. So once I knew he was, once I knew he was available, first, I reached out to him first, and he said, Yes. Then I had the timeline backwards, then I sent him the track. We had two or three prepared for the people that I mentioned to you, but I didn’t know which person was going to like which track more. So I had to guess so with “Always the King”, once he said, “Yes,” I kind of rewrote the lyrics because I told the band that I was so excited that he said, “Yes.” I’m ready to track now, send me the song, because it’s different. It’s different saying “yes,” and then one day you get a hold of that person, and then one day they get in the studio, and then one day it literally turns into a four or five year process. He was like, “Cool, I’m ready now. Send me the music.” He hadn’t even heard it yet. So, I fixed it up, sent him the demo, and then he actually wrote his own parts on the second verse and all that, which is pretty cool, because a lot of features don’t always do that. I usually will give them a guide track, but Kellen did his own thing. So I liked what he brought with the lyrics. It was cool. So I took the song in a direction, which is the reason why I reached out to him first. In my opinion, he’s one of the best singers in the genre, of all time, not just like, right now, because we’re alive. I don’t think and I’m not afraid to recognize other talent in the scene, and I never have been, so I’m doing it this way. So I told everybody that I thought the reason why “King for a Day” is the sickest song ever is because of the feature. That’s just my opinion. And just the vocals are so hard and so intense, and so as a vocalist, it’s so hard to recreate, yeah? Like, dang, did he do it? So, I mean, everybody loves Pierce The Veil, and nobody is gonna say anything bad about that band. They’re a fantastic band. And without the feature, it’s a great song, but when you put the feature on there, it sent it to a stratosphere of what I would like to call “foreverness” So then I said, “you’re always a king, not for a day. You Kellen, you’re always the king.” And that was the joke. So I sent him, and then I gave him and then I gave him the lyrics, and then he kind of just jumped with it. How many times do I have to prove myself? Is this the first line? And how many times has he had to prove himself, right? And I was like, hell yeah, he’s going for it, because I don’t like singers who hold back. There’s a lot of holding back going on the scene. Obviously, it’s not coming from me. I don’t give a shit what anybody thinks. You can ask Jason that. I’ll tell you that right now, all right, and he’s not my enemy and never has been. The only reason why we don’t get along is because we both tell the truth, and that’s what happens, right? Sometimes you get along, and sometimes you don’t, but that’s okay, because we’re at least both not liars. We’re both good people. And that’s why I’m here today. Or would have said no. I can’t be any more clear than that.
Absolutely. Who designed the artwork for X’s For Eyes, and how much creative control do you and your bandmates have today over your own art?
Ronnie Winter: Quite a bit. Actually, K’s really, really in on this stuff more than me with Steve. Steve’s our Co-manager. He’s been our guy from the beginning. He found me in a trailer in Middleburg in 2003 and flew down from New York and was a brand new A & R for Jason Flom, who had just got hired by Virgin, and he found this little emo band in the middle of nowhere, literally country town, USA. And he kind of just pulled me aside, was like, “if you trust me, yada yada yada.” And here we are. We’re still partners. So he’s always been from the beginning, not just this outwork from Don’t you fake it, all the way. So we have essentially the same art team that we’ve ever had, Steve, and then we used Sean Mosher, who is the graphic designer from, don’t you fake it. So we brought Steve and him together, and now we also have K in on the mix, who literally just designed this, and I’m actually wearing it right now.
Oh, nice! That’s good timing.
Ronnie Winter: This is such a cool design. And then on the back, it’s one of our hit songs that says, “I’ll stand up with you forever,” and everybody’s loving it. So, K’s only been in the band two months and already has a design up and running. So I said what I could about designs. Basically, like our old design team still works for us. We still use Sean Washer. We have for 20 years. We still use Steve, but now we have K in on the mix. So now, which is cool, because I don’t do that. I design nothing. I would never be able to do this. This is way cooler than anything I can imagine. And I actually didn’t have anything to do with this at all, nothing. And now it’s our band shirt. But usually I’m just sending dumb ideas to the other guys in the band, and they just say that they’re dumb, so they don’t go anywhere. So we never have new shirts ever, because I only have dumb ideas. So hopefully they’re all great now, like this one. One question for you, K, are you gonna do the next album art?
K: Well, it depends on what the concept is and if I can fulfill the needs of the concept. But I could handle it for sure.
Ronnie Winter: Let me ask you, do you think it’s cooler when it’s done in house?
Absolutely, yeah, because I mean, not all bands are blessed with having that talent. A lot of times they go outside and it’s kind of putting a round peg in a square hole, kind of thing. It doesn’t quite work out…
Ronnie Winter: We are not blessed for that, but we are now, apparently. So I just really want to take this opportunity right here on this interview, live to ask you to do it…
K: I’ll do it. If I can’t do it, I’ll find someone that’s better than me. I’m in. Let’s do it now.
I got you on the record, too! So talking about the record, Don’t You Fake This, “Face Down,” is arguably your biggest song to date. What are some of the benefits/drawbacks of finding success early in your career?
Ronnie Winter: Well, I wouldn’t say, arguably, it’s clearly <our biggest>. No one’s arguing that. I am also honest, even when it’s not flattering. Here’s the way I explain it to people. It’s our “Hotel California”, man. Out of every Eagles fan, they know “Hotel California.” Do they know the rest of them? Not most of them, and I’m talking about that guy walking down the streets, grandma, who’s standing next to him right now. She knows “Hotel California”, but she doesn’t know any other Eagles songs, but they are super successful, and they got like 25 number ones. And every one of those songs jam. So essentially, we are the “emo Eagles”, and it doesn’t matter what people think about it, because we have nine billboard number ones. Nine. That’s accreditation, right? We have multi-platinum certifications. I think “Face Down” is five times platinum, “Guardian Angel” is double platinum. “False Pretense” is Gold. “Cat Like Mouse” is about to go gold. This is all just on one album. We have other albums that are also about to shift into gold. Obviously, the people who are saying these things just don’t know how to count other than with one finger. Is what I’ve deduced. It takes more than one to count them all. It’s all insane. So if they did do the smallest of dives, they would see that we’re the “emo Eagles.” So fuck off. If you can’t read, dude, go back to school. I’m tired.
Fair enough. So “No Kings” was a very cool concept music video, I loved how it all came together. Who did the animation for that? Was that still also in-house? Or how did that come together?
Ronnie Winter: Same team. So Steve and Sean were coming up with these images and sending them to me. And I was like, This is so cool. Yeah, I loved it. And while I was tracking the lyrics, I mean, it was so fresh. It was like ice was on the streets. And I’m in the studio with Matt, and I’m so pissed off because I’m in LA and I met Madden Studios, which is the Good Charlotte brothers’. They own that studio. And I’ve always looked up to that band, always. And they’ve always been very accepting of immigrants, or whatever you call them, and alternate lifestyles. And just the whole, email umbrella we anybody doesn’t know that’s just a dumbass. Get out of our scene. What the hell that’s what I’m that’s why I’m here today. I’m actually here to say that because who gives a shit about our record. Who cares? Don’t listen to my record. You’re not gonna like it. If you’re a racist homophobe and you’re watching this, stay the fuck out of our scene. That’s why I’m here. That’s why I’m here, so anything else doesn’t really matter. That’s why I’m here. To say if they can’t figure that out, then they’re stupid. And I can’t help them. There’s nothing I can do about that. Maybe they can change their life and then come back to the scene. We’ll welcome them back. We are forgiving. I did a lot of stupid shit when I was young. Ask Jason. I was young, and also on the spectrum. Didn’t know it. Also an alcoholic, didn’t know that either. Now I’m different. They can change too. I’m not saying they can’t, if you’re watching this and you were a dumb ass, come into the light. Join me. I was one. Don’t feel so bad. Just stop doing it. Stop being shitty. Come on into the good side. Does that sum it up?
I mean just being a good person, I mean, more than anything. Accepting people for who they are, is one thing that seems to be missing a lot in the world today. I mean, I live just outside of DC…
Ronnie Winter: That’s the key to the album. What you just said right there. Did you get it from the feel of the record?
I did. Yeah, I’ve listened to it a couple times from start to finish. And yeah, I’ve been a fan of the band from the beginning. So yeah, it’s a great way of coming back to that early sound, but also moving forward in your career.
Ronnie Winter: Because I tried hard.
I can tell. So the last question I have for you is you have a couple different performances coming up. Warped Tour is one of the main ones. And then, When We Were Young, in the fall…how do you go about developing the set list for each of these kinds of nostalgia dives?
Ronnie Winter: Good question. Sometimes we just walk on stage and make it up. I think it depends on the situation. But the band, I think, is very malleable in the way that we can kind of switch things up on a dime if need be. Everyone knows the catalog.
K: Having just joined the band as a member, I have been listening to them since I was like 16. So I think I know more songs than John, our drummer. Like, we brought up a song last night, “Step Right Out.” He was like, I’ve never heard that song in the last catalog. Lonely Road is probably my favorite album.
Ronnie Winter: Honestly, it’s a good one. It’s funny how all of a sudden everybody’s like, “Oh, emo country…” Yeah, we did it in 2000. It’s called Lonely Road. It took a while for everyone else to catch up. You guys hated it. I loved it. The whole web trashed on it. They said “emo country” was terrible. It’s a terrible idea. I was an idiot. I don’t know what I’m doing. Fast forward. We got this homey with Jelly Roll, and everybody loves it, right? With the cowboy hat and everything, right? See what happens when you’re early? You get shit on. That’s what happened to me. That’s what happened when I put an emo country album out. So you know what, Who cares? Who cares about anything that we have to say today? What matters is what’s happening in our fucking country. So pay attention. And if you’re not paying attention, you’re not emo, you’re a fucking poser. If you’re a homophobic loser, you’re a fucking poser. If you’re a racist, you’re a poser, get the fuck out of my scene.
Thank you both for your time.